Bulldust. The government has as much right to collect your income information as they have to prosecute and imprison you for not paying the correct income tax, pretty much by definition.
They’re pretty much satisfied with number of people and their ages living with you. We didnt complete anything else and they attempted to pursue the matter but not with much conviction. I also didnt supply any ID numbers. They left within 5/10 minutes. I suspect they complete it at their own leisure and imagination elsewhere anyway, its done in pencil to boot.
They came on Saturday to my place. I had people around for lunch, so I told them to leave the form, I’d fill it in and they could come back yesterday to pick it up. I filled it in after my guests left (I was pretty wasted by that time, so I can’t remember what the questions were, but I don’t recall anything about ID numbers). Needless to say, they didn’t come and fetch it.
My company does exactly that, but it has nothing to do with ‘balls’ and everything to do with getting government contracts (which we wouldn’t get if the BBBBBEEEEE stuff didn’t look good). Seriously, the gardener at my office is ‘classified’ as a ‘consultant’ because it makes the company look better, and I think that counts as a simple lie, and I don’t approve. Census data is not only used by the Government for (actually I have no idea what they do with the info…) We use it often in Social Impact Assessments to try and predetermine the need and desirability of infrastructure upgrades or specific types (and yes, income classes) of residential developments and the like.
Nobody has been to my place yet (that I know of, I’m hardly ever home) but I think this is important information to have available and after the cock-up of Census 2006 its about time that accurate social data is collected so that decision-makers and investors know what is needed where.
Really???
Cape Town - An increasing number of South Africans are refusing to be counted in the census and could face jail time or a heavy fine.Stats SA has now applied for court permission to enforce the provisions of the Statistics Act, the TimesLive reported on Friday.
Census 2011 runs from October 10 to 31 and citizens have to answer all questions put to them. If they refuse to comply, they could face a R10 000 fine or six months imprisonment.
Statistics Act, 1999
http://www.statssa.gov.za/about_statssa/statistics_act.asp
(2) Any person who—
(a) impersonates an officer of Statistics South Africa for the purpose of obtaining information from any person or body; or
(b) represents himself or herself to be making an entry and inspection in terms of section 15 or putting a question in terms of section 16(1) when he or she is not an officer of Statistics South Africa authorised in terms of section 15 or 16, as the case may be, is guilty of an offence and liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding R10 000, or such higher amount as is determined from time to time by the Minister of Justice as contemplated in section 1(1)(a) of the Adjustment of Fines Act, 1991, or to imprisonment for a period not exceeding six months or to both such fine and such imprisonment.
(3) Any individual other than an employee of an organ of state, business or other organisation that—
(a) fails to answer a question put in terms of section 16(2)(a) or furnishes an answer to such a question which is false or misleading in any material respect, knowing the answer to be false or misleading;
(b) fails to furnish information or sign a declaration in terms of section 16(2)(b) or furnishes such information which is false or misleading in any material respect, knowing the information to be false or misleading;
(c) incites any other person to act as contemplated in paragraph (a) or (b);
(d) refuses—
(i) the Statistician-General or any authorised officer of Statistics South Africa, acting in terms of section 15, entry on any land or premises; or
(ii) to permit the Statistician-General or that authorised officer to inspect anything on or in that land or premises;
(e) wilfully obstructs the Statistician-General or any officer of Statistics South
Africa in the exercise of a power, or the performance of a duty, in terms of this Act, is guilty of an offence and liable on conviction—
(i) in the case of an individual, to a fine not exceeding R10 000, or such higher amount as is determined from time to time by the Minister of Justice as contemplated in section 1(1)(a) of the Adjustment of Fines Act, 1991, or to imprisonment for a period not exceeding six months or to both such fine and such imprisonment; and (ii) in the case of a business or other organisation, to a fine not exceeding R20 000 or an amount determined by the Minister from time to time by notice in the Gazette. (4) (a) A conviction of an offence referred to in subsection (3)(a) or (b) does not relieve any individual, business or other organisation of the obligation to supply the correct information. (b) If after 14 days from the date of sentencing for that offence, the information has still not been furnished, that individual, business or other organisation is guilty of a further offence and liable on conviction for each day after the expiry of that 14 day period— (i) in the case of an individual, to a fine not exceeding R500 or an amount determined by the Minister from time to time by notice in the Gazette; or (ii) in the case of a business or other organisation, to a fine not exceeding R2 000 or an amount determined by the Minister by notice in the Gazette.
I was being sarcastic, but never mind, I didnt add the smiley.
well, i had thought they could kiss my ass, but seems, the law has got us but the short and curlies
What gets my goat though, is that the infamous Sunday rapist received a suspended sentence of three years for rape and went on a raping (and eventual murdering) spree on the Sundays he was supposed to do community service. Yet… yet, they’ll lock us up for 6 months, which will effectively ensure we’d lose our jobs, and they’ll lose valuable tax money in the process and we’d STILL not be counted (because we wont be living at that particular property anymore, now would we?). (wtf!!)
I was censused last night - relatively painless process and over in 15 minutes. And nothing I wanted to object to.
I stand duly corrected.
If you’re reluctant to divulge information and/or confronted over unanswered census questions, you are fully within your rights in resorting to what is called “conditional acceptance” where you agree in principle to do as is requested of you but first they need to address satisfactorily some of your concerns and questions in the interests of full disclosure. Be firm but polite in that if they provide you with satisfactory answers, you will happily meet their request for information.
It’s best to have a printed sheet with your questions on it leading with a short paragraph describing that you are exercising your right of conditional acceptance and that you are entitled to full disclosure before participating. Your questions could include—
- Why do they need your name and ID number for the purposes of counting you? What do these details have to do with demographics?
- Is the census a type of contract? If so, what are its terms and conditions? What is the consideration the census taker brings to this contract?
- Exactly which agencies will have access to census data, either in raw or in abstract form? And to what level of detail will your information be made available to these agencies?
- Are census data used for anything other, however seemingly trivial, than evaluating current demographics? If so, what are these purposes? In particular, does the government in any way use census data for the procurement of other goods or services?
- Are your rights limited only to those that the government grants you, or do you have some natural human rights? Why does the census violate your natural human right to refuse an answer?
With a bit of thought, you can come up with several other questions that are awkward (but not unreasonable!) and which the census official won’t know the answer to.
It’s likely that they have neither the resources nor the perseverance to go along with you, and you are fully protected against repercussions because you didn’t refuse or mislead or wilfully obstruct the census taker. Chances are you won’t hear from them again.
'Luthon64
I took the form and filled it in myself. They were supposed to come and fetch it. I haven’t heard from them again.
the whole census process irks me because of the following:
dont i have the right to privacy? the cops need a warrant to enter your home, why do the census okes just get to come in at will?
how about religion, what if a muslim woman, for argument’s sake, arent allowed to let a strange man into her home? what then?
how about if i dont feel comfortable letting strangers in my home, say i have been attacked or raped, and i have a phobia?
You don’t have to let them into your home. You can either stand outside in the street and fill the form in there, or you can ask for the form to fill in yourself, and arrange for them to pick it up later.
why cant they send it to you via mail? like, sars can send you the forms or whatever. they send you spam bullshit.
also, why cant they send it to your postbox? it’s compulsory to submit your tax forms now, so why cant they just do the same for census?
Because they are too stupid, incompetent or drunk to think of it. I was in the UK for the 2000 census and they posted the form to you, you filled it in and dropped into the nearest mailbox, postage paid. No problem. If you couldn’t understand it, or there was some other problem they would send someone along to assist.
I suspect this is the actual reason it’s done so cumbersomely here. Apart from the logistical nightmare of distributing and collecting the forms especially in rural areas, comprehension failure is endemic to this country. Firsthand experience has shown that even the census officials aren’t immune from debilitating cognitive defects in the very thing they were supposedly trained for.
Ultimately it’s a sad reflection of this country’s miserable-and-ever-worsening education system.
'Luthon64
The Swiss (who else!) has got it down to an art-form:
Starting in 2010, the census will cease to be conducted through written questionnaires distributed nationwide. Instead, data in existing population registers will be used. That data will be supplemented with a biannual questionnaire sample of 200,000 people as well as regular microcensuses.[4] The motivation for this change was financial, as the full census created costs for the federation of the order of CHF 100 million.
Collected data includes population data (citizenship, place of residence, place of birth, position in household, number of children, religion, languages, education, profession, place of work, etc.), household data (number of individuals living in the household, etc.), accommodation data (surface area, amount of rent paid, etc.) and building data (geocoordinates, time of construction, number of floors, etc.). Participation is compulsory and reached 99.87% of the population in 2000.[3]
We’re paranoid about all of this, but we’ve got reason to be.
Random question - but I haven’t been counted yet (I really am hardly ever at home…)
I have no problem participating in census.
What if October 31 arrives and they skipped me :’(
Is there somebody I can call to make me feel a little less left out…?
Also the case with me. I DEMAND to be counted!