Door to door....

This morning we had some credulous fellow and his dad ring the bell with a message to tell us about the occult (He seemed to put the ‘emfarsis on the wrong silarbil’ making it sound like ark-alt, guess you had to be there! :slight_smile: ) He showed me a magazine called The Occult and some other one, The Watchman or something like that… And then started to tell me that there is this thing called the ark-alt … At that point I cut him off and said no thanks, not for me. (On flipping through the pages there were all sorts of references to to bible passages - funny how uneducated, desert dwelling nomads had inside information on conspiracies that would be alive and well 2000 odd years later.)

Not a minute after they had left I had this sweeping feeling of regret for cutting him short - I could have had some real fun with them! Damn!

Do you have any suggestions of what questions I could asked to have a little fun with them?

One of my favourites is to ask the person, politely, how old he is. Then I say, “You’re 45 and you still believe there are invisible gods and stuff floating around? Heheheh.”

The Jehovah’s Witnesses publish The Watchtower. You can read articles on line if you like. Here’s to “The Noachian Flood”, for example:

Geologists studying the landscape of the northwestern United States believe that as many as 100 ancient catastrophic floods once washed over the area. One such flood is said to have roared through the region with a wall of water 2,000 feet high, traveling at 65 miles an hour—a flood of 500 cubic miles of water, weighing more than two trillion tons. Similar findings have led other scientists to believe that a global flood is a distinct possibility.

For those who believe that the Bible is God’s Word, though, a global flood is more than a possibility. It is a fact. Jesus said to God: “Your word is truth.” (John 17:17) The apostle Paul wrote that God’s will is that “all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth.” (1 Timothy 2:3, 4) How could Paul teach followers of Jesus the doctrinal truth if God’s Word contains myths?

Not only did Jesus believe that the Flood took place but he also believed that it was global.

Now that should leave no doubt.

wow, now jebus is a geologist as well?
wel fok my!

I akshually believe that these floods were a reality. The Bible’s telling of it is merely the manner in which the primitive people related these legends and life experiences. Obviously they ascribe then floods to “the wrath of …(fill in your choice of deity)” Over 500 religious writings (e.g Sumerians) reflect some type of flood at some stage of their history. The ‘Noah’-figure as well as the floods of Judaeo-Christian religions corresponds greatly to the legend of Utnapishtim of ancient pre-Mesopotamian times. Similarly and far removed from the influences of Europe and the Middle-East, the Aztecs reflected upon the adventures of one Coxcoxtli and his wife Xochiquetzal, who escaped the effects of a massive flood in a huge boat, and which ultimately grounded on a high mountain peak. In the same vein, the Popol Vuh, sacred works of the Mayan people of Mexico refers to a great flood brought about by the Heart of Heaven. A Great Father and the Great Mother survived and repopulated the world.

The book by Graham Hancock “Underworld” explains (in his view) how many of these floods came about with massive Ice Age meltdowns which happened much faster than was the general assumption by geologists.

its also more often the case that tribes would hang around dams and rivers, for the fertile soil, abudant game and obviously the water. so they would be more hard-hit when floods came along.
the ice-age floods are relevant. not sure how many hominids were hanging about at such a time, and be able to pass the tale on. my history in that regard is sketchy.
i think, that in a community of like 500 people, when a flood comes along, takes up their little valley, and they are allmost wiped out, and have to cower on some mountainside, it might well seem that the entire world is under water.

now that i think of it, even if all the water in the ice-caps melts, then there will still not be enough water to cover the landmasses. and i cannot imagine that there can be such an immense, and global, weather system, that can dump so much water on the entire planet. its nonsense.

you’re right GCG about the quantum of water. However, during the last Ice Age (only 20 000 to 11 000 years ago, although there’s some dispute around this as well) hominids were long established; but the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM) is agreed to have been about 21000 years ago. Some say we’re still in the ‘last Ice age’ (wtf!!). There was apparently so much much ice/water tied up in the LGM that the global sea level was between 115 and 120 meters lower than today. The land masses exposed then were substantially different than today with for example the land bridges between Sri Lanka and India; Siberia and Alaska well exposed. So-called ‘Sunda land’ was a fully fledged antediluvian continent around modern Malaysia, Indonesia, Phillipines stretching to Japan…the 3 main islands of Japan were joined etc etc.( Sundaland was rapidly submerged between 11000 and 14000 years ago. Imagine what the poor hominids thought (those who survived) then!
Prof Shaw (Earth Sciences, University of Alberta) says that giant ice sheets that covered Canada, most of Scandinavia and Northern Russia slipped when warming started and in the case of the Canadian ice, crashed into the Hudson Strait causing massive tsunamis and rising of sea levels. There were 3 abrupt floods like this: 14000, 11,000 and 8000 yrs ago (Blanchon and Shaw, 'Reef Drowning during the last deglaciation: Evidence for catastrophic sea-level rise and ice sheet collapse" Geology vol 23 January 1995). The memory of these floods were recorded; this theme repeats itself in North American, Greek, Egyptian, Indian, Chinese, Chewong (Malaysian), Thai and Aboriginal legend as well of course as the Bible etc.
Changes our perception of the world’s history somewhat.

Additionally, Graham Hancock isn’t exactly a shining beacon of accurate information, unbiased reporting or impeccable scientific credentials. In an important sense, he’s a door-to-door salesman peddling cheap thrills. His success at it, however, is an altogether different can of wriggly worms.


i suspect i have book of his at home, he totes the sumerian texts. which is all good and well, and since i wasnt alive back in the day, i will give credit where it’s due. it was a fun read. either, the alien are our grand-daddies, which would be cool beyond reconing, or the old sumerians were smoking some off the frecking wall shit. and i want some.

As with all writings one must do your own homework and draw your own conclusions. Hancock’s search for ET’s and mythical civilizations is not my cup of tea either but he does confront the establishment and takes the flak for it. The world has been changed more by mavericks than by stuck-in-the-mud academics.