Yeah. No, religion can only make it worse.
I think Mefiante’s analysis makes a good point.
The thing is, expropriating land is not as simple as changing the constitution. There is also a practical component involved.
Suppose the constitution is now changed, and they take my (hypothetical) farm. Well, first thing I stop paying the salaries of the hundred workers who work for me. Er, used to work for me, seeing as it is no longer my farm. Secondly I stop paying any and all debts, including the farm itself, assuming it is not yet paid for. Thirdly, I don’t move out of my house, because while they can take my land, other parts of the constitution guarantee me a roof over my head: nowadays you cannot even kick non-paying renters out of your property. And then, the very next day, I go get me a social grant, seeing as I am now without income.
Multiply this by twenty thousand farmers. I have a feeling Ramaphosa knows this. Perhaps his plan is to change the constitution and then just do nothing further. But if they do go ahead, four million white citizens will suddenly have a very good case to be officially classified as refugees. Hello, Canada, Australia, England, America, etc. etc.
Interesting point. Btw, does anyone care to look at pics of my flourishing veg garden?
I’m getting this feint suspicion my last comment on page 1 has been missed?
Now is a bad time to have a vegetable garden. It might get classified as agricultural land and expropriated. 
Not sure what you mean?
I find it kind of funny to see how the very people who spent decades waving placards against apartheid have now suddenly started kind of supporting it.
But I think even if they do change the constitution, which now seems likely, the panic is probably still premature.
If this was directed at me, no, I did not miss the comment, and I am very aware of the nationalism backlash in both Europe and the US. As I stated before, culture will out, and the world is not ready for a global one-nation state. I can certainly see that confiscating the property of a minority ethnic group may cause that group to be classified as refugees.
In the meanwhile, I’m learning to grow my own food because it’s always a good idea not to be totally dependent on a steadily worsening economic system. And because I love gardening.
Various articles in the media:
Ramaphosa frantically back-pedals (alas, too late now):
A fairly good article, summing up some of the issues, and explaining policies:
The EFF’s policy, insane as it is may be, is actually probably a better one than just handing out land to political cronies, Zim-style. But what will it mean in actual practice? So you’re a big commercial farmer, and now your farm belongs to the state. In practice, it may well mean that everything just goes on as it always had, seeing as there is no one else who can manage the farm. But it may also mean you stop paying salaries and debts (that is now the government’s problem). Result: everything collapses, overnight.
As the article also points out, the ANC does not in fact have any kind of clear or coherent policy on this issue at all. This is likely partly because the ANC is a big umbrella, sheltering everyone from hardline communists to capitalists. It may also be because, in the back of its collective mind, the ANC knows full well that expropriation will not solve anything, and therefore it is used as an issue about which you can make populist noises but never actually do anything. (Though as we have seen, populist noises are dangerous).
Lastly, an article pointing out the elephant in the constitutional committee room: the vast bulk of South Africa’s people do not want land in the first place:
The entire thing is a political game, designed to shut up a relatively small number of very noisy fantasists.
Perhaps not quite supporting it, but yes, the light of frenzied fanaticism has been fading from eyes. It’s time to pay attention to the finer points of equal rights. It is entirely possible to be proud of yourself/heritage and to insist on equal equal rights without being a racist. If you insist on free speech, you have to tolerate ANN7 unless they actually spew hate speech … and so on.
I’ll admit to schadenfreude
How do you invest in improving an immovable asset if you can lose it at any time? Moreover this simply means instead of being able to own something, black people will now also own nothing. Moreover, good intentions can be undone very quickly as political expediencies change. Business can only thrive in a climate where you have certain degrees of certainty.
But it may also mean you stop paying salaries and debts (that is now the government's problem). Result: everything collapses, overnight.
I do expect our banks to have an egg or two to lay over this cause they stand to lose billions upon billions.
As the article also points out, the ANC does not in fact have any kind of clear or coherent policy on this issue at all. This is likely partly because the ANC is a big umbrella, sheltering everyone from hardline communists to capitalists.
Moreover, politicians in general in this country seem to live in a fairy lala-land. They are great at crafting policies along the lines of “We need to make cake and to eat it too, but without losing the ingredients or using electricity for the oven.” They rarely achieve these infantile ideas, and often “work” in the diametrically opposite direction in reality. (Lookin’ at you NDP)
What Rhamaphosa suggests sounds to me very much like practical impossibilities. Confidence will suffer and production will not go up. To the contrary.
The entire thing is a political game, designed to shut up a relatively small number of very noisy fantasists.
This is where I think a lot of us live in a big 'ol bubble. I think this is actually a massively popular issue. Hell, it’s always been a big part of the EFF’s platform and they came out of nowhere and scored lots of seats in the house riding policies just like this. The ANC is threatened by how many votes this can cost them. That says a lot.
The little bit of experience I have had with EFF supporters suggested that they do not so much want land as stuff. They seem to me to be mostly city people (it would be interesting to see where most of the EFF support comes from). They all apparently think that when the EFF comes to power, they are all going to get a big house in the suburbs, plus a big car (some of them told me as much).
It does not occur to them that the geese that lay all these golden eggs will stop producing, but I think in the back of their mind they are fantasizing about a South Africa in which white folks function as slave labour, sustaining a high living standard for EFF supporters while living and being treated the way black house servants lived and were treated in the 1970s. Any farms they take over will simply be stripped of valuables and then left fallow.
I.e.they are actually the party of open racism and revenge. Indeed not really the kind of people anyone in his right mind wants in power. It remains to be seen how much support they really have.
190 billion? I cannot find the source right now
I concur
Urban, not rural
The EFF is really a “black pride” movement. They emphasize black excellence and downplay white excellence, to the point of refusing to acknowledge it.
They have significant support among the youth and are becoming the ‘new ANC’ for the massive generation of people who have never worked and who will never have a job under the ANC.
That was my impression too. And it makes one wonder why they are so obsessed with farms none of them actually want. I sometimes get the impression it’s just a revenge thing: they know how much farms traditionally mean to Afrikaners, and they’re going to show them who’s boss now. They are really pretty much like passionate teenagers who will shoot up a school and then commit suicide, just for the sake of being heard, and never mind that they go down with the ship.
Another perspective. An eminently sensible one at that.
'Luthon64
One can hope this insidious rationality could spread.
Mr. Malema this w/e was on fire:
Name any entity as vicious as a scorned and humiliated politician who also happens to be an illiterate, sneaky, evil-minded thug: Zuma blames whites for his removal
HKGK.
Anybody else hear murmurs of unreported farm invasions by the EFF the last couple of days?
It was reported on the front page of Rapport. I don’t buy the paper and just scanned through. Some or other property in Midrand was involved. It’s noteworthy that they only occupy land that is conveniently near urban centres. I don’t think they’ll ever occupy land somewhere out in the middle of nowhere.
I think then it’s just called an “informal settlement”.