Organizing the secular/non-religious communities

Other Off topic
21

First of all, I think you should be commended for your activism, you’re ability to communicate effectively in the public media sphere is really admirable.

I really agree with your take on the current activist situation being overly aggressive not really helping much to create a positive image of atheism/etc - I can also understand that so many in the non-religious segment of society feel isolated, discriminated and angry and frustrated, but although I can’t agree with their methods, I understand the frustration, perhaps I just don’t understand the overtly millitant and rebellious attitude and trend, I do admit to get angry and frustrated too at times, but playing the teenage angry rebel card won’t do much in creating a good environment for open discussion, one thing though, privately, I usually enjoy the comedy/humour side these “angry atheists” create and I like sharing these types of comic relief on forums like this, but it’s like my black friends won’t tell white jokes in front of me and my other friends understand that I don’t find racist, sexist and homophobic jokes always all that funny and so people know how to cater the right jokes to the right people in general.

We all have lives and stuff, so no one can really be fully committed until like you say, there is sufficient funding to employ some people or yourself, but in the meantime, how can we volunteer part-time?

I really also believe the biggest obstacle is communication, how do you convince/encourage people/groups to join the FSI? If we can open lines of communication between especially our real activists like you, Tauriq Moosa, George Claasen, Hans Pietersen and the like maybe this will encourage more people to become active by showing people how to become active or having a place to discuss and attempt certain projects? I know most of us will always have different objectives and agendas, this doesn’t necessarily mean we can’t at times allign ourselves to common goals and shared interests. I think communication is key especially when it comes to activism, taking on projects/ campaigns - if it wasn’t a tiny group on its own, but having more people could mean “the right strategies” can be found as a larger group of people could increase the group’s competencies and it means that underlying synergies can be put to greater use.

I don’t know the first thing about what the right strategy would look like or what campaign is a good campaign, and I’m not interested in being some evangelical thing trying to [de]convert people, but rather how can we do things to improve the way people see the secular in society - because we can sure do with a facelift from being seen as just being angry or thinking we’re somehow better of smarter or whatever else is trending and influencing the public mind. How can we promote critical thinking, scientific curiousity and other ideas in a good way?

22

I’m going to be contrarian and state that even bad publicity is good publicity.

Currently there are precious few religious in this country who realise how many atheists they find themselves in the midst of. I found out a while ago that a person I’ve known for upwards of 10 years was an atheist. And I had no idea, much less the religious around me.

Even “militant” steps like trying to get religious observance made non-compulsory at schools, or taking down billboards that depict atheists as “empty-headed” are good things. I hate the term “awareness”, but this is exactly what it creates.

IMHO a good first step is for people to realise there is an opposition to start with, and I think this is a battle we’re slowly winning. The zealous “letters” that keep making their way to news24 is a good testament… a sign of things to come. The rest will follow in due time.

Take a gander at the gay rights movement, they had the same problem: You can’t start talking about the real issues before people in general start seeing you as a human being. The only way that can happen is for them to become aware that there are plenty of folks in their daily lives who are of that persuasion. Once that happens the rest follows suit. Maybe not as quickly as you’d like but, once again, look how far the gay rights movement has come… simply by existing.

Yes their (and our) viewpoint is seen as near-demonic to begin with. I’m of the opinion that we cannot state our case without appearing downright evil in their eyes, no matter how accommodating we try to be. So might as well take the brunt and at least get the ball rolling. The time for the finer points will come later.

23

And unfortunately we will simply have to wait for it to happen. I was once a few years ago invited to “share my life” with a congegration, apparently my life story is interesting and inspiring enough to share with many people. I noted to the lady in question that I’m an atheist and she was utterly horrified and exclaimed “But you are a good person!”. She’s still friend/ly with me so I suppose she still thinks I’m a good person, however, the invite to “share my life” was withdrawn as I wasnt willing to claim Godhelpedme.

I’m behind all our atheist activists (both local and international) for a worthy common cause, but frankly, I suspect most atheists just want to be left alone. Its unfortunate that the religious gets most of the extroverts of society, thankfully we have our true heroes amongst us who are willing to wave the flag around.

24

I don’t view that as being contrarian at all, I think there’s a place for the millitant atheists too, besides as you say, it’s about raising awareness.

I don’t think that making cases against, like Hans Pietersen says on his website, “religious apartheid” is necessarily millitant, though his approach in this instance, probably is.

Point is that “millitant atheism” is seemingly the only voices being heard, this just entrenches the view that all atheists are just angry, arrogant, bigoted smartasses, much like radical feminists cause people to think that all feminists are a bunch of angry, misandrist, cat-loving, dog-haters - but there’s a place for that, they do expose things like discrimination, sexism, misogyny etc. But in my view, they often do a poor job promoting feminism in a positive light, which also focuses on discrimination and equality and all the important topics and issues that they raise from a women’s perspective.

25

Well done, Faerie! And I’m glad that it turned out amicably in the end.

Jeepers Vulcan, you say smartass like it’s a bad thing. :wink:

26

Well in the encounters I’ve had with christians, this seem to be a bad thing, as it often seems they feel insecure,(I suspect because of the whole cognitive dissonance issue), that they are somehow “dumb” or “stupid” for believing in all their doctrines and stuff, isn’t that why they constantly seek reaffirmations? And I think this explains their need to cling for dear life on ID or YEC or whatever else their pastor/priest/rabbi/cleric? cooks up for them.

This is my biggest gripe, complacency - do we feel comforted by the fact that we do live in a secular state, that we are satisfied with the equality and rights technically afforded to us under the constitution, that we overlook the discrimination and just stay in our comfort zones?

27

Hmmm. Let me put it this way…

I’ve met lots and lots of non-militant atheists.

I’ve never met a christian who has met an non-militant atheist.

EDIT: I’ve taken to going for the jugular. There’s usually no point in arguing reasons.

Hit them with: “God is an imaginary friend for grown-ups”. This leaves them gaping for air every time.

Militant? Maybe. Effective? Hell yes.

28

I cannot agree that it is complacency, yes, we are fortunate that we cannot be tortured and shot for being atheists and although most of us are not by nature an agressive lot, we will all fight for what is our right and decline the invite for a “quick prayer ahead of the court case” and provide the raised eyebrow with one in return. Our problem if you want to consider it one, is that we simply want to be left alone. I, for one, do not want to be part of any rah-rah group waving placards around - I’m quite happy though to throw money at anybody that wants to do that on my behalf or offer my services behind the scenes (in the comfort of my own home and cats), and have done both on occassion for causes that means something to me on a personal level.

Being “alive” (to steal from our religious brethen) in your atheism and outspoken about your non belief is the best route to go in my opinion, by the time someone in the work environment finds out that you’re non-religious, everybody already likes you and have spoken with you half dozen times over coffee. Your friends should already know (unless you’re entirely friendless which isnt a bad option either). All atheists in my personal circle couldnt be bothered with the few people who are horrified and run away screaming in terror. And why should we? They are obviously idiots and we dont generally mix with people we consider below our own intellectual status. (idiots dont mix with people THEY consider to be idiots do they?)

29

Funny how you’re a millitant atheist, just for openly admitting you don’t believe or expressing some opinion about belief.

When religious people do the same, they are only “sharing their faith” or “testifying” or some such

When religious are millitant, you think dark ages, ISIS, Al Queda, Ireland… >:D

30

Thanks!

Different folks have different strategies, and different goals. To indirectly respond to BoogieMonster, the FSI isn’t explicitly an “atheist” organisation - that’s not the focus of our work. We all happen to be atheists, and the mission statement does commit members to naturalism, but the focus is on secularism, scientific reasoning, and ethical humanism. None of that work benefits from pissing people off.

As for what people can do as volunteers, or part-time, it’s not clear that this is a question I need to answer, rather than a question people can partly answer for themselves. There are various things people could do, and any of us can populate a list like that - write comment pieces, either for the FSI or media on behalf of the FSI, organise debates, form campus groups or SitP groups, construct critical thinking classes, help develop a database of resources, record podcasts, do graphic design, etc. etc. etc. So if someone has a skill, they can simply say: “I can do this - is this useful to you?” or “I’d like to form a FSI branch in Jhb - how should we go about this?”

I’ll say more later - have to rush to a meeting.

31
we are fortunate that we cannot be tortured and shot for being atheists
says who...? http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/10/us-religion-atheists-idUSBRE9B900G20131210

A University of British Columbia study conducted in the United States found that believers distrust atheists as much as they distrust rapists. Shithousmouse!

Seven countries that carry the death sentence for being an atheist: Pakistan. Others include Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, Sudan, the West African state of Mauritania, and the Maldives, an island nation in the Indian Ocean.

32

So if I ever go to the Maldives I will have to become temporarily Cthulhu-ian? (wtf!!)

33

I feel a bit inspired to something, but don’t know what, you know? I also share the same sentiment about doing something for a reason other than promoting atheism per se, I mean atheism basically stops at ‘I don’t believe in deities’ whatever else one is, is what I want to do something about, maybe secular humanism - I always loved philosophy, it’s how I left religion behind after all :smiley:

Anyway I’ll leave it there for now, the suggestions made already on this thread is a great starting point already, I’ve never thought about writing on the rapport opinion sections before for example :slight_smile: Maybe one can write for the newspaper as well? I’ll start looking into those.

But yeah, glad I’m in good old SA and not the Maldives!

34

MyNews24 has a fair bit of atheist/religious “discussion” amongst all the other posts. On FaceBook there are a number of groups who seem to do little more than provide a bit of mutual mental masturbation, not much debate and those with different views do not last long. “South African Atheists”, “South African Skeptics” and “Atheists vs. Everybody Else” are three that I am aware of.
Very often these discussions and groups do not have much effect on the strong believers but there are numbers of people who are reading, not commenting but being given food for thought. It is well worthwhile always looking for the opportunity to challenge the believers on their beliefs. This will in time produce greater numbers of people who doubt or even give up those beliefs.