A atheist in Arabia

The Imam just started chanting for midday prayer. So I thought while I have spare time I’ll write a bit about my experience and impression of Saudi Arabia, and the capital city Riyadh.

First a bit of background. I’m a programmer, mostly doing workflows. My company sells project management software, and we are creating a project management office for a division in the Saudi science division. I’ve been here for a month now, with another month to go.
Islam is the only religion here. It’s against the law to worship anything else in public. When I got here at first, I was quite surprised to see that you have to insert your religion on a card you have to fill in when entering the country. I just left mine blank, I didn’t want to find out what would happen if I wrote the truth.

I have had no experience of what the domestic situation is for the women. Non muslim women must wear at least a abaya, basically a almost sheer piece of black cloth, with some non-descript decoration on the hems, but don’t need to cover their head. Almost all of the Saudi women I have seen wear the full outfit, with nothing visible but the eyes. It is quite bizarre and disconcerting. There are no women working in any of the shops, not even the ladies clothing shops. And then there’s “my wife is still in school, because she’s 14…”

Thus far I haven’t discovered anything to go do, except walk around in shopping malls… When you drive around in the city center, there are young men driving motorcycles, cruising the streets, doing wheelies. I’m told there’s not much else to do for them, they can’t go out and socialize like we do. And then every hour and a half in the evening, it’s prayer time, and all the shops close.

Of course, you feel pretty safe walking around in the streets, which can be attributed to the draconian measures if you’re caught. Strangely though, most of the houses have burglar bars on the windows. Might be for something else, but I thought that was weird.

For a place that’s in the middle of the desert, they’re pretty free with their water. The 5km from the airport to the city is lined with trees, each tree with a little pipe feeding it water. They get most of the water from underground aquifers, and something like 30% desalinated water from the sea.

The traffic. Just about everyone drives like the taxi drivers in South Africa. I’m actually amazed I haven’t seen more accidents than the 2 or 3 I have. They will just drift over lanes, right in front of you, or reverse out from a parking space, with little regard if a car is on the way. Yesterday, when I hooted at one guy drifting just in front of me, he decided to just drive off the road. I eventually decided to fuck it, and got away from him as fast as I could, driving in the opposite direction than I intended, because he wouldn’t allow me to turn.

For all that, the people are friendly. Mostly they will try to help you, although the language barrier can be a big obstacle. You just try and find someone who has semblance of English that can help you.

Excuse the rambling post, I’m not the best writer

Your rambling is interesting, keep doing it, I love hearing about different cultures - even when I’m dead against this particular one.

Its a pity that you wouldnt be able to engage with some women about their lifestyles and whether they’re content with it, although its probably the only one they know and wouldnt disagree with it.

I also like the rambling. :slight_smile:

I once took a bus from Istanbul to Ankara and sat next to a very smartly-dressed (business-suit like) woman. She was working in Istanbul and on her way to visit her family in some rural village (the name escapes me) About 10 minutes from Ankara where she was to get another bus, she left her seat and came back a bit later dressed in a burka like dress thingy (her face was not covered, though, I dunno what you call those). I was rather shocked. I mean, just 10 minutes ago, we had been chatting about my travels, and her boyfriend, normal stuff… But when I asked her about it, she explained to me that in the city where she works, people do not take her seriously in traditional dress, it is just not accepted in her office. But her business suits don’t go over so well with her family. She told me that she actually prefers the dress-thingy, because its not in her circles or view meant to oppress women, but has something to do with a woman valuing her body so much that she chooses to hide it from just everyone’s eyes. I thought it was BS. Didn’t buy it in the end, but it did make me think about it for a while… :-\

I saw the same in Dar es Salaam with a very low crime rate…probably to keep us male atheists away from their women!

More likely to keep the women inside…

It’s raining right now. Quite a thing, rain in the desert. It’s actually been raining quite often.

Excellent post Mandarb - and well written too. Keep sharing - it’s great.

Have you told any of the locals you are an atheist? I would be interested to know how they view us? Probably better than if you were a Christian. See if you can get some responses but don’t go and get arrested or something - or get a Jihad going (that would spoil your trip, wouldn’t it?).

Or make it all worthwhile, depending on your point of view… >:D

No, I haven’t. Religion hasn’t really come up in conversation with the people I’m talking with. I don’t want to push buttons, get the job done without any complicating issues. Hell, all of my colleagues at work bar one don’t know. So yeah, I’m not out of the closet.

I did get a bunch of pamphlets from one of the people we are supposed to train. Titles like Islam Our Choice, God in Christianity - What is his nature?, Muslim Christian Dialogue, The True Message of Jesus Christ, Islam Our Choice, I’m told it’s “I’m receiving information from you, so I would like to return the favor” situation. Haven’t read through it yet, thought I would bring it back for investigation at the Skeptics in the Pub.

Here are some pictures I took: Dubai, Riyadh

Maybe you could ask the question without making it personal. Sort of edge up to it. “So … what do you guys think of Muslims? Jews? Atheists?” Dunno - as I said - don’t want you to compromise the job or your cover - just curious (my curiosity gets me into enough shit as it is).

Mandarb - your photo links didn’t work ???

Whoops, sorry. Links fixed.

Cool - thanks.

Is that what you look like? No wonder they send you to weird faraway places hehe ;D

Just kidding - thanks for the pics - and for the cool thread.

So what happens when build a city in the desert, don’t think, or discard the improbable, and then the improbable happens?

Chaos. It started raining. Not that bad, like when the summer rain come to Gauteng. Pretty persistent, but not hard, but also a fair volume of water:


http://nubzdg.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p_flsBrURtc_Q49vhNXotCnI6V73vBTXg9mwoOoN7Pg50CwmPcg3E65PrAOU1Yx0-HjlgEZwQFX744_yu0M7oxySduIeOOWVH/IMG_0239.jpg


http://nubzdg.bay.livefilestore.com/y1peoE4zwXCl9MoOgt7RjDMltaSlw0f3mKa5T89l06FLqWxU42natGibl8vmgsVW7EDLE80JZJ8l0RvTlHig-p0_iWw8t9RbIM9/IMG_0240.jpg

The problem is that they don’t have proper drainage. There are no drains on the roads. So the water has nowhere to go, and just makes 20cm puddles, and even deeper at some places. I floated at one stage, trying to get home.

Just another day in the desert…

;D

LOL. I guess building cities with storm-water drainage systems in the desert is like putting sun-patios in the antarctic. Hehe. Great pics Mandarb - they should have been on CNN. Must be all those friggen atheists in the desert causing floods (not as bad as loose women causing earthquakes though :o )

The aftermath of course is that there is nowhere for the water to go the next day. We tried to go the office, but turned back when we realised that there’s no easy way through. They have large main roads that go under bridges, making dips, and natural dams.

So the solution is to pump the water out:


http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pGZe0ucFJPUVPd600xFa-saUO-op3kLwGzIfVIjemtZB-ijSPQm3V4VtRB-PDsK6LzeRFJzxj460jXG3pqVTRgw/IMG_0244.jpg

View from farther down the road, you can see the amount of water. Not sure for what amount of time they have been pumping. And there’s a dip like this every few kilometers.

http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1paGbUXOr7woo837Wq229TT2sg9cK_fgqhCTn2Ov00b2HvbbGY6OxDomWjpE2UR0FatB7T0ZULMovAETFnXlrZHg/IMG_0245.jpg

The first one I took driving past in a hurry, and I was still trying to get my shutter speed down from the previous night, so it’s a bit blurry.

Sounds as if you were having fun the previous night - no entertainment in the desert? >:D

Cool pics again - it’s like having our own private Arabic correspondent.

Perhaps those imams should be a bit more specific the next time they pray for rain.

Yah, maybe Oom Angus should go for some lessons!

So not much to tell further. Just been trying to get work done.
Was taken for some sight seeing, so here’s some pics of camels


http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p3iccBLNcn3o2ti6eIrLN6yC7OUMxMah_-5JC6kuX1CPyT5X_eiDrAjI1y4xOTuSwQZf9rVElAv7Ud2unsmtvtQ/IMG_0546.jpg


http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pV9W2rm7vgBO207UjXN7y9ma4XpUgYUHo38Ha-4PGD_mS7UFyWrMxBxtw5zWDnDawnkUc1Wik0hLi_eaMBY3DeA/IMG_0538.jpg

And a whole lot more here http://cid-0ec7054f70f73234.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Riyadh%20Set%202