Peter - sorry for taking so long to answer your question. You acctualy asked me a question that I have never asked myself. How about that … ???
But here goes:
I believe in God, because:
My upbringing played a huge role
Personally I think that the universe and everything that is in it has far to many coincidences to have been created by accident.
Such a grim thought for me that were are just a random collection of matter
Just because I am incapable of proving God exists does not mean he doesn’t
I find that it makes sense with me.
I have yet to discover an organized religion that I have complete faith in.
I’m no missionary, nor do I seek to convert anyone to my faith.
I do not like these people who present themselves as models of faith and always seek to convert anyone to their faith - I find that to be hypocritical
I firmly believe that religion has a place in any society and that religion and science can be reconciled by a little open mindedness on both parts.
There are far too many people on both sides of the argument that believe that the other side is “damned to hell” and must be “redeemed” or are “ignorant” and “backward.”
I believe that people have a right to believe what they want.
And the purpose of life - still not sure that I will ever find an answer for that. Currently I would say “to make the world a beter place”
You think Islam is doing a swell job in yonder Middle Eastern / Northern Africa regions? Or does only xtianity have this place in society?
Personally I think the very tenants upon which science and religion functions are mutually exclusive. They are parallel explanations of our universe and where the do meet, religion gets burned.
There are far too many people on both sides of the argument that believe that the other side is "damned to hell" and must be "redeemed" or are "ignorant" and "backward."
Well obviously I don't think any one is damned to hell. And the "ignorant" and "backward" are for those fundumbentalists. I don't think, for instance, based on what I have seen so far, which is little, that you are these. I do think you are a little delusional when it comes to this aspect but this may be, as by your own admission, that you haven't thought it all the way through. Being indoctrinated into a religion is a doozy.
I believe that people have a right to believe what they want.
So do I. With the caveat that they leave me alone and don't stick their noses into things where it doesn't belong.
And the purpose of life - still not sure that I will ever find an answer for that. Currently I would say "to make the world a beter place"
That is admirable. Even an atheist like myself can latch onto that. Good luck with it.
No - I am talking about all major religions which teach us to be more compassionate and carry the message of love, compassion, and forgiveness. And forgiveness reflects tolerance and an understanding of the value of another’s rights and views. This is the foundation for harmony.
Unfortunately, religions today place too much emphasis on ceremony and rituals. This is sometimes old-fashioned and often limiting.
That is admirable. Even an atheist like myself can latch onto that. Good luck with it.
Me either, don’t see why you are postulating a God though.
I doubt a random collection of matter would be able to think such grim thoughts.
True, but it’s hard to prove that something doesn’t exist, anywhere. No matter how many places you look, one could always argue it might be hiding somewhere else.
Really? It doesn’t sound like it.
I think this is a good purpose for one’s life, but it sounds like a purpose you came up with on your own. How would the existence of a God make this purpose any more real?
Well we actually do not need religion for any of that at all.
As with your purpose, these are things any moral society may strive towards. And I would argue without the constraints of religion, it may even be easier.
Do you honestly think major religiouns preach or teach more compassion, love or forgiveness if their scripts teaches the
following:
[quote] Kill Homosexuals
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB) Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB) Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB) Death for Cursing Parents
If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT) Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT) Death for Fornication
A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB) Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB) Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB) Kill People for Working on the Sabbath
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: ‘Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.’ (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
[u][i][b]Murdering Children[/b][/i][/u]
[b]Kill Sons of Sinners[/b]
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)
[b]God Will Kill Children[/b]
The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)
[b]Kill Men, Women, and Children[/b]
"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)
[b]God Kills all the First Born of Egypt[/b]
And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)
[b](Note that after God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter. So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful God.)[/b]
[b]God Will Kill the Children of Sinners[/b]
If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)
[b]More Rape and Baby Killing[/b]
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)
Do ministers preach one thing but their bible says different? Or do they choose to ignore the bad parts, to SEEM more acceptable to their followers? Much more of these examples at http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm
Can you or anyone else honestly say, when they’ve attended church, they’ve beyond a doubt experienced the “so called” compassion, love and forgiveness amongst church members? If your honest with yourself, you would admit that it is mostly opposite!
Good thing I do not believe in a sky daddy, cause I sure as hell wouldn’t have killed my kids or anyone else’s for that matter!
Ceremonies and rituals old-fashioned? What about believing in a 2000yr old scripture written by people who thought comets, thunder storms, tsunamies etc was send by gods
I think we need this in the world - it makes it a beter place.
David Sloan Wilson studied a random sample of religions. He went to an encyclopedia of world religions, the sixteen-volume set compiled by Mircea Eliade, and he wrote a little computer program that picked volume numbers at random and page numbers at random within volumes. (random sample without reference to any specific hypothesis and found that the minority were spread by violent conquest. The named Mormonism and early Christianity as examples
Can you or anyone else honestly say, when they've attended church, they've beyond a doubt experienced the "so called" compassion, love and forgiveness amongst church members? If your honest with yourself, you would admit that it is mostly opposite!
yes I have been to a couple of diffrent churches in my life and have experienced the above - but that was my experience.
I just think in my opinion that in does more in good in the world then the negative.
Hey r0n1n, thanks for posting the reasons for your belief in God in such a clear manner. Its interesting to note that while you could equally subscribe to any god under the logic of point 4, it is only really point 1 that restricts you to your particular religion. Would you agree?
I’m afraid that’s a bankrupt defense for religion. Any story including those by Hans Christian Andersen or the Brothers Grimm can easily lead to people doing good things. It needn’t even be a morality tale. Or it can make them do very bad things too, just like religion can.
Rational ethics as inherent in secular humanism beats any fairytale for instilling goodwill in people. It sees people’s goodness and altruism as evolutionarily guided social necessities pretty much independent of their specific cultural backdrop. Similarly badness is when we ignore those principles usually out of self-interest. Rational ethics is far more tolerant and all-inclusive than any religion ever was because it doesn’t push any us-and-them thinking like most religions do. The downside is that rational ethics is much more taxing intellectually because it asks individuals to exercise their brains whereas religions are mainly ritual, repetition and regurgitation.
Its interesting to note that while you could equally subscribe to any god under the logic of point 4, it is only really point 1 that restricts you to your particular religion. Would you agree?
Yes - and point 5 (my personal experiences and the way I perceive the world)
Irreverend - point taken. I am not saying religion is the only good thing for the world but one of the things that make it beter.
Point 1 is understandable, because it at least explains why there are such a blindingly rich assortment of gods and religions available for sampling.
“Personal experience” is another matter. If such experiences exist, then how come in real life only some people have these experiences. We all live in the same world, not so? (Please don’t say that belief in God is a prerequisite for experiencing God.)
This is a very interesting statement. To claim a right necessarily implies that it can be taken away. Is there some way in which I could force you to believe something, or disbelieve it for that matter? Also, are you actually able to believe things just because you want to believe them?
I don’t think I could believe in God even if I wanted to, and I’ve had rather lengthy conversions with the chap. Even in person, I don’t find Him all that convincing.
Yes. If you start early enough. "Give me the child ..." and all that.
nasty ;) but remember not matter what - parents will always transfer their "crap" to their children.
I believe that people have a right to believe what they want.
meaning of "right" - Bill of rights
15. Freedom of religion, belief and opinion
Everyone has the right to freedom of conscience, religion, thought, belief and opinion.
Religious observances may be conducted at state or state-aided institutions, provided that
those observances follow rules made by the appropriate public authorities;
they are conducted on an equitable basis; and
attendance at them is free and voluntary.
“Personal experience”
How I (with my background and up bringing) perceive situations and the world.
I don't think I could believe in God even if I wanted to, and I've had rather lengthy conversions with the chap. Even in person, I don't find Him all that convincing.
I do not base my beliefs on what makes me happy and I resent the implication.
joke - didn’t you see the smiley face, but i do apologize if I offended you
Is there some way in which I could force you to believe something, or disbelieve it for that matter?
definition of believe according to Merriam-Webster:
1 a : to have a firm religious faith b : to accept as true, genuine, or real
I do think you can “force” a person to believe / disbelieve something. You can manipulate his perception of a matter/situation to make him accept that your perception is genuine and true.
How would you manipulate someone’s perception? With drugs? Is belief necessarily based on perception? I have perceived many things which I do not believe in. How would you make someone accept something?
These examples do not make people accept things, though they may increase the odds of people accepting them. Too much can also have the opposite effect.
