Chapel Hill shooting

Thoughts?

I actually agree “anti-thiest” is a step to far, and is in the realm of ideology,
where your hate for religion can easily spill over to hate for people.

Was bound to happen, and the point was made a long time ago by the South Park creators (themselves atheists).

[spoiler]The episode(s) boils down to 3 different sects of a future, completely atheistic, world warring over the answer to “The great question”, which is eventually revealed to be “What should atheists call themselves?” Hence the relevance to the above point. :wink: [/spoiler]

What’s getting lost in this hasty dash for scapegoats and cover is that atheism/anti-theism, unlike several religions, doesn’t have a “holy” book, even less one containing a “divine” decree to kill believers. Nor are there atheist/anti-theist “holy” men fomenting such actions. The same cannot be said of several religions, and this important difference should not be ignored. The killer’s actions were blatantly at odds with secular humanist values, and much more akin to certain religious imperatives. And lastly, I don’t know of any atheist/anti-theist ever claiming that atheism/anti-theism necessarily precluded fanaticism.

The idea that blame for the murder can be laid at atheism’s/anti-theism’s feet is quite literally ludicrous.

But you can be sure that theists will milk this one dry, and then some.

'Luthon64

Of course it would probably be hugely illuminating to see the ratio of terrorist acts per capita for different (non)religions.

Well, we can make some qualitative inferences.

'Luthon64

I think most inmates, claim religion because it helps with parole application.
And has very little to do with there world view.

I think the thing that is most bothersome about religious fundie killings is that the mainstream members of those religions don’t condemn the attacks out of hand. There is often a “but” involved: “yes, they shouldn’t have done it, but the cartoonists were also wrong.”

Secularists must not fall into this trap: killing people just because they belong to this or that religion is evil, no ifs and no buts. If religion is a virus of the mind, then religious fanatics are also victims, and killing them will not help.

A quote I saw on news 24. I think it sums up everything nicely.

When belief in an ideology removes our ability to feel compassion for someone who believes differently to us, we become everything that is wrong with the world.

…Or atheists are just bright enough to not get caught?

That contention clashes hard with the fact that “In the federal prisoner statistics, a full 20% of the respondents either answered ‘none’ or provided no response to the question on religious affiliation,” as reported by the source from which the 0.2% frequency figure was cited. If there is some benefit that motivates prisoners to claim a religious affiliation, you’d expect far fewer none/no answer responses.

There is always that in regard to prisoner stats but it doesn’t explain the correlation observed between religiosity and other crime barometers. Now, where did I put that balaclava? :wink:

'Luthon64

I’ll contend that since atheists are generally made up of more intelligent people, that intelligence is what is preventing the criminality. Both the full realisation of the consequences of criminal activity, and a higher standard of living not necessitating it.

Then again, some would claim the more educated simply indulge in criminal activity using pens, computers and contracts.

Actually, I don’t think there is much direct causal connection. More educated people tend to be less religious, and also less criminal.

I see the police have reported that there was bad blood between the parties caused by a dispute over parking and that the killing is linked to this dispute. The Islam and atheist reasons appears to be the work of a press seeking sensation to sell copy.

Well if he killed 3 people over parking, he’s not a shining example of intelligence.

I’ll still contend if you have very little regard for other people and see them as less than you,
it will be very easy to take the thought of killing them and put it into action, with very little
remorse, because you killed a sub human.

I’m not saying that this is the case in the situation, but to kill 3 people over parking makes me feel
that is how he saw them.

To kill three people no matter what the reason was is just wrong! The fact that the press and other commentators latched onto the religious angle before anyone had investigated the causes is even worse! it is akin to one of the members here being involved in an accident with the local rabbi or dominee and the press reporting that the Skeptic did it on purpose due to their religiosity. Until the issues at play are firmly established speculation based on incomplete data is asking for trouble.

I think that is a false analogy.

We know he killed 3 people over a parking dispute. And I’ll bet he has some mental issues.

What I want to know and it’s a fair question to ask and for the media to report on.
Did his “anti-theistic ideas” make him see other people as less than human and
make it easier for him to kill them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpckDF6UP60&feature=em-uploademail I think he sums it up quite clearly.