I am a lifelong skeptic in Pretoria now taking the bold step of joining a community of like-minded individuals. I have always taken a confrontational stance towards my friends’ mostly unscientific, irrational view of life. Being from Norway originally and often travelling back I find the state of scientific understanding in SA, Pretoria in particular, shocking and have made it my mission in life to confront irrationality whenever I see it.
This has made me slightly unpopular at times, especially amongst my creationist friends and work colleagues; however I feel that it’s worth it as I see the seeds of a more questioning attitude over blind acceptance start to sprout in some. Alternative medicine is another pet hate of mine and it still amazes me how utterly uncritical most people are towards it, in SA in particular (how can it be legal for pharmacies to stock pretty much ANYTHING?).
Anyway, I think skeptics in SA need to do more to make ourselves visible and help people open their minds to science.
Yes, every month. Attendance varies, but recently we’ve had between 4 and 12 people.
There is also the Joburg SITP every month, and a Sandton one which is starting to pick up.
Welcome Andysor!
And we have a fledgling SITP in Port Elizabeth as well, if you ever find yourself in this neck of the woods. Or what the heck, take a drive down especially!
A quick question: is everyone here an atheist? I find that more often than not skeptics tend to be, but would not want to offend anyone by making a false presupposition. I have friends and colleagues with very open (and powerful) minds who are religious. I find that my judgement of them depends primarily on how well they express their views and justify their beliefs.
Intellectual laziness and an unquestioning attitudes tend to invite my ire.
i really think, that if you are going to question everything, then it should extent to religion too. some people are maybe just so kak scared, and indoctrinated, that religion is a total no-go zone. its so deeply embedded, that they cringe when religion gets questioned.
even i, after more then 10 years sober from religion, still find myself cringing at the atheist jokes, eventhough i find them hilarious. its so drilled into your head, that you fear retribution, despite yourself.
on the other hand, my boyfriend grew up in a totally non-religious house. and he doesnt understand why we in the forum go on and on about atheism, and argue about the stupidity of the woo. its a total non-issue to him. and he rarely finds the blasphemous jokes funny, because he doesnt get where its coming from. allso, i think half the funny is because its a naughty kind of funny.
sometimes ignorance is bliss.
I was never really religious either. In my family we had religious tradition, but very little actual practice. We went to church once or twice a year. I think when I was around 10 I thought a literal interpretation of Jesus/God/Holy Spirit (never really got the whole trinity thing) in the sky watching over us was pretty silly. It was only into my teens that I started to get more involved in talking to other people at my religious school about it. I was also quite instrumental in ridding my girlfriend of her guilt acquired during her religious schooling.
Personally I think atheist jokes, especially the obscene ones, are funny in the company of other atheists, but are counter-productive around questioning theists, much like Dawkins and Hitchens’ ridiculing rhetoric can be. I really think the world will be better off without religion so I try my best to come across as dignified and non-vitriolic when probing the subject to avoid inviting a defensive reaction.
No, we have some chewy toys at least occasionally. Well if GCG don’t scare them off prematurely ;). And one self identified crackpot.
I find that my judgment of them depends primarily on how well they express their views and justify their beliefs.
I find that only the ones who tell me they know they have no empirical evidence yet they believe to be a) intellectually honest and b) nothing much to discuss and we can safely turn to rugby and for ever more leave religion behind.
Those who do attempt to justify or try to make it an intellectual exercise backed by reason and logic, I find to be intellectually bankrupt. There is no reason nor logic where faith is involved, it is the very antithesis thereof! But at the same time, the most entertainment can be gotten from those who futilely attempts this impossible task.
i'm the bullshit filter. if they still stick around after i've had a go, then they are truly worth our effort to ridicule and insult. i weed out the whiny, boring, run-of-the-mill woos.
Probably the majority of us are. We’ve had of late a few religious nuts that drifted in and then surfed out on a tsunami. Xavier may or may not hang around, I actually hope he sticks around for a bit.
That makes sense and that’s the way it is with most of my friends. If people don’t object to the lack of empirical evidence then conversations can turn to genuinely open ended topics like “Morality outside of the bounds of religion”. I try not to be the smug-faced dick who keeps on flogging the dead horse.
However you still get many people who get offended at the mere mention of a questioning attitude and hold you in contempt for trying to turn them away from the light. I try to keep religion out of all work discussion, other than colleagues I see outside of work, because I fear their judgement of me would compromise our working relationship. This despite them often bringing it up under the assumption that I’m a Christian.
Interestingly a good colleague and friend is a young earth creationist and we often have good natured discussions. I’m set to be his best man when he gets married next year.
