I agree that jhkeet should spell out in some detail how he or she understands evolution. Without such clarity, we’ll inevitably talk past one another.
The question now is, will jhkeet come back?
'Luthon64
First of all, is evolution science? My argument was never to bring God into science, but to just teach science. Evolution is not science, even the Biology textbook I study from has their own doubts (And they are anything but creationists), these are taken from Biology 8th ed.,Cambell & Reece, 2008, Pearson:Benjamin Cummings. :
“The origin of life remains the most speculative topic of the entire unit (Unit 4 in the book), for no fossil evidence of that seminal episode exists” page 507
“As substantial and significant as the fossil record is, keep in mind that it is an incomplete chronicle of evolutionary change.” The Fossil Record page 510 (mmmmm… wonder why it’s incomplete, maybe because there is no transitional fossils? just a thought…)
(My favorite) “The presence of small organic molecules, such as amino acids, is not sufficient for the emergence of life as we know it… Nevertheless, it is possible…” Abiotic synthesis of macromolecules, page 509
Wow, it “is possible”, you see, thats what evolution is based on, the speculation that it might be true. If it works for you guys, then I can speculate creation also and call it science.
You trust these so called scientists who say evolution is science, and that the big bang formed out of absolutely nothing, yet it was they who observed the first law of thermodynamics in the first place, namely that matter & energy cannot be created or destroyed.(You’re science seems to contradict itself my friend)
God certainly has a bit more moral standards don’t you think? Evolution teaches the kids they are nothing but a bunch of animals and then when they rape, steel, murder, corrupt and abort their kids you say “Don’t do that!”, well why not?? Based on evolution, if it feels good, do it!
As for your question on the exclamation marks, why not use 40? They do fine as well?
Um… not what I think, it’s what you’re friend Stephen Jay Gould thinks, he is the one who came up with another dumb theory called “Punctuated Equillibrium” based on the fact that there were no transitional fossils, so he thought the “changes” in the animals must have happened in leaps. Wow!
Two questions if I may:
God certainly has a bit more moral standards don't you think?Please give an example of one of God's moral standards, and why it would have been impossible for humans to come up with the standard by themselves.
Except for the Genesis story, can you present any other evidence in support of the creation hypothesis? (And please bear in mind that an attack on evolution theory does not necessarily constitute proof of creation).
Mintaka
Okay, now that you’ve returned, perhaps you’ll tell us what you think biological evolution actually teaches. Please give a brief overview including the most important features and mechanisms involved in evolution. Then maybe we can move forward past all these straw men, half-truths, untruths and convenient distortions.
'Luthon64
Dear gods.
You are talking about abiogenisis. Evolution is NOT abiogenises. Evolution is
“Biological evolution … is change in the properties of populations of organisms that transcend the lifetime of a single individual. The ontogeny of an individual is not considered evolution; individual organisms do not evolve. The changes in populations that are considered evolutionary are those that are inheritable via the genetic material from one generation to the next. Biological evolution may be slight or substantial; it embraces everything from slight changes in the proportion of different alleles within a population (such as those determining blood types) to the successive alterations that led from the earliest protoorganism to snails, bees, giraffes, and dandelions.”
From What is Evolution?
We do not know yet how the initial life got started. There are several theories, one of which is the primordial soup, a other is that the organisms came here on a comet. We just don’t know for sure. But once it did start, evolution kicked in, and we are the result.
As for the Abrahamic god’s morals…
If we all followed his morals, we’d be killing children for being uppity, killing homosexuals, killing people who work on Saturday, or Sunday, or whenever the sabbath is supposed to be.
And so what you’re saying is that if you had grown up, never having heard of religion, that you would now be killing and rampaging across the world? You certainly seem a better person than that? And if I gave you irrefutable truth that god does not exist, heaven and hell are myths and everything you believe from the bible is false, you would immediately go out and rape and pillage? Would your kids do that?
Morals come from society, not from any book written by bronze age people.
/futile post
Yes. It’s testable and falsifiable. It’s empirical. It makes predictions. It explains several disparate phenomena by simple overarching principles.
Rubbish. It’s considerably more than speculation.
Wrong. Special creation lacks the features of a scientific hypothesis or theory.
Which scientist said that? Give a verifiable reference please. The fact is we don’t know at present. Why can’t godbots handle “I don’t know” as an answer?
No, I don’t. Assuming he exists, he’s like a spoilt, sociopathic brat. Any parent who treated their kids the way this god of yours does would be charged with every serious crime in the book.
Rubbish. Where’d you get that? It teaches that humans are genetically more closely related to great apes than to cacti (although in some cases one is left to wonder).
Because it’s antisocial behaviour. You don’t need any god to tell you to behave in socially acceptable ways, just your parents and peers. BTW, your spelling sucks.
Nice dodging of my questions. You haven’t actually answered them. Try again please.
Yeah, but like your god they’re redundant.
Wrong firstly because SJG’s dead and secondly because he never thought so while alive but I’m chuffed that you think he’s my friend.
Rubbish. Punctuated equilibrium is a hypothesis to explain why some fossils are found to occur covering lengthy geological periods while others are few and short-lived. Also, it doesn’t say that an amoeba gave birth to a worm etc. Those “leaps” are quick in geological terms (unless one is a young earth cretinist).
More nice dodging. What do you think evolution teaches? Try again please.
I expect you’ll tell me how to test it then? And how it’s falsifiable?
And a hell of a lot of assumptions.
Principles? On what grounds are your principles based?
I know, it goes with major assumptions too.
Where?
Do you really want me to give a few references here? :-X
Because then it’s not science, it’s something u have to believe in. By the way, there are only 2 options on how the world got here u know. Either Somebody made it, or it made itself, both of which has to be taken by faith.
So I take it that it was man who thought of forgiveness, love thy neighbor like thyself (wonder where racism got in the picture then), hope, care, trustworthyness( that one took a hit since we’ve taken God out of the picture) , self control (we don’t see alot of that anymore do we?), kindness, patience(traffic says it all)
Um, so we do come from animals right? :-\
Mmm… wonder why people swear, drink, hit their wifes and girlfiends, lie and so on hey?
Can say exactly the same.
Okay, it teaches that through “millions and millions of years” all animals have evolved from one single living cell, through a process called natural selection. (Nature cannot plan ahead by the way, it has no intelligence whatsoever, it can only take an existing structure and fine tune it. And what good is an evolving bodypart for millions of years? Like your archaeopteryx who supposedly evolved from reptiles for example, what good would half an arm and half a wing be for a million years anyway? Just can’t quite catch that dragonfly then can you!
Hey, the bible even has the evolutionists life verse in it!!!
“Saying to a stock:‘Thou art my father’, and to a stone:‘Thou hast brought me forth!’” 
Jeremiah 2:27
Here Keetie, go read some of these. Actually, read all of them - the links, not just the posts. Meanwhile I’ll amuse myself with your unspeakable ignorance and shameless presumption. At least make some kind of effort to know what you’re talking about because it’s obvious that you haven’t the thinnest clue. I’m not going to waste any more of my time on an armchair “scholar” sporting delusions of adequacy.
Evolution when taught as a science
is clearly in godly defiance,
'cause fossils transisionary
are simply illusionary,
and tigers can cross breed with lience.
Mintaka
Once again I can say the same.
I do actually, I’m studying BSc Zoology at the Uiversity of Pretoria. And unfortunately evolution is also part of my studies (and shoved into my science textbooks) so I get to do quite a bit of reading on the evolution religion.
Yip, me too. I’ll take on any evolutionist in a public debate anytime anywhere, but answering all you guys at once on the net is time consuming.
I would like to know one thing though, if you are just a bunch of chemicals and energy strung together that just seemed to happen by chance over millions of years, how can you trust your own thoughts and reasoning?
One thing is certain, God loves you and me even though BOTH of us have sinned against Him and He will forgive anyone of any sin if they come to Him and ask His forgiveness.
I do actually, I'm studying BSc Zoology at the Uiversity of Pretoria. And unfortunately evolution is also part of my studies (and shoved into my science textbooks) so I get to do quite a bit of reading on the evolution religion.[i]WHY?[/i] Your first post shows just how ignorant you are about animals, why would you want to study zoology? ???
Yip, me too. I'll take on any evolutionist in a public debate anytime anywhere, but answering all you guys at once on the net is time consuming.Judging from your arguments on this thread, you wouldn't stand a chance.
Um… do you really think a baby elephant doesn’t eat less or poop less than an adult elephant? :-\
I do actually, I'm studying BSc Zoology at the Uiversity of Pretoria. And unfortunately evolution is also part of my studies (and shoved into my science textbooks) so I get to do quite a bit of reading on the evolution religion.
Then all the more reason for you to follow Irreverend’s suggested links, you then actually stand a chance to pass Evolution
as a subject. In your Evolution Project, please make sure to mention this site in your Bibliography
I would like to know one thing though, if you are just a bunch of chemicals and energy strung together that just seemed to happen by chance over millions of years, how can you trust your own thoughts and reasoning?
You are not prepared to accept that you could be a bunch of chemicals and energy strung together, BUT it is absolutely fine to believe you are from dust??? Makes a lot of sense!!! :
Luckily our human brains has developed more in the past 2000-3000 years, to enable us to reason and think logically. Script writers weren’t able to do so in biblical times. Like mentioned above, they didn’t even have the basic knowledge of personal hygiene in biblical times and for that reason died very young because of all kinds of infections. Deaths amongst woman giving birth the highest death rates.
Up until a few hundred years ago, the same people believed in a flat earth and swear to a definite death if you pass a certain point BUT……
You choose to believe an out dated script’s information, above current Scientific studies because ………??? You yourself are busy educating yourself but in the meanwhile you think scientists has studied for many years and possibly for a longer period than you are going to, just to make Stories up, to be in the limelight? The same scientists try to find Cures for deceases which your god didn’t or wouldn’t cure, how thoughtful of them and how unthankful of guys like you.
If he is really out there, ask him to read this
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/ and give us feedback 
Did you have to run through your study guide first before you could reply on an ooooold post?
But while your at it, check and see if you can find any info on the poop of the Argentinosaurus dinosaur,
he must have been in the Ark, since you guys think earth could only be 6000 years old. A adult weighed
Approximately 100 tons, so I wonder what a baby’s weight would have been (definitely a lot heavier than a elephant calf) :
Um…the question was actually: If you are just a bunch of chemicals and energy, can YOU trust your own thoughts and reasoning? You side-stepped the question
The Christians always knew the earth was round, the bible says so (duh, of course it does, maybe it’s not out of date?) :“It is He that sitteth upon the CIRCLE of the earth…” Isaiah 40:22
Quick newsflash, God made a perfect world, MAN wrecked…and is still doing so buy the way, and it’s because of man’s sin and disobediance that there is death and sickness in the world, so if you think about it, why should God be good and caring to anyone, since everyone has sinned against Him? (That’s why He is God, nobody would be able to still give His own creation a new chance everyday when all they do is just throw it in His face). You guys have tried so hard for so long to take God out of everything and now that He has backed off you ask:“Where is this God then?”. So, for everyone who wants to take God out of everything, great news!!! He won’t be in hell either!
You don’t think there might have been any possibility that he would have gotten just the eggs instead?(definitely a lot lighter than an elephant calf) :
You sure your not a SARS employee ???
No Keet, Noah might be your hero but he wouldn’t have been brave enough, neither
Had the ability to fetch an egg of a dinosaur nest. In Noah’s time they weren’t even
Brave enough to explore land past their sight!!! After all, the animals apparently came
To Noah, so did the eggs roll to him??? :
Then again how would Noah have known such animals existed a few million years ago
I think your Mother had a hell of time explaining to you that the Tooth fairy
REALY doesn’t exist
Still side-stepping my question hey? Well then it seems to me that indeed you cannot trust your own thoughts and reasoning
You don’t think he could have gotten the babies when they were , say a year old then? It was indeed God who commanded the whole thing, so I bet He would have supplied them strength ( as He still does to anyone who will ask Him) and they sure would have listened (everything obeys the voice of God, except us that is, but He’s gonna fix it back one these days ;))
You don’t have to answer my question, however here’s another one for you and the rest of your gang:
The Darwinists would have us believe that life evolved from single-celled organisms to more complicated forms. If that’s true, then we should expect to see intermediaries between organisms with one cell and organisms with millions/billions/trillions of cells, but that’s exactly what we don’t see. Where are all the two-celled organisms that we should see if evolution was true? Where are all the five-celled organisms or twelve-celled organisms? Are we supposed to believe that 50 million amoebas randomly assembled into a fully formed flatworm by chance? (We do find fossilized single-celled organisms, so don’t say that some organisms don’t fossilize well and that’s why there aren’t any)
I think your Mother had a hell of time explaining to you that the Tooth fairy REALY doesn’t exist;D [url=http://"http://www.atheistcartoons.com/?attachment_id=1332"]
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