Transgender

Other Flame Wars
41

@ Mefiante: It’s a learning experience. Wicca is an experiential religion. What I experience and learn allows me to evaluate what I want from the experience. Basically I get the opportunity to decide for myself what works for me and what doesn’t, what to believe and what not to, and the best part is that nobody else gets to judge me for it.

@ ingwe: That debate was settled in the first part of the discussion on the other thread as far as I can tell.

@ Faerie: “How do you contain supernatural properties in order to add it to a mixture? What do you generally perscribe such potions for? Illness for example?” The way I think of it is the substances, herbs, etc contain symbolic properties and also energies - while you’re creating the mixture, you also infuse it with your own energy - call it will or intent - in order to achieve the goal you are setting for the mixture. Actually, the more I get into this, the more it looks like a kind of “programing”, and magick more like influencing or “hacking” the system.

“I understand the use of symbolism of colours, however, please explain the HOW and to WHAT PURPOSE (possibly give me some examples - I’ve got a flat head when it comes to these things)” Gold and green for example you would use in prosperity spells or to attract wealth, white is for protection and healing or for settling a dispute and bringing peace. Black is one that a lot of people misconstrue with black magick and “dark arts” - actually black is a “one size fits all” because it is a mix of all other colors, so can be used for any purpose.

“Sorry, but this just sounds like a load of hogwash to me. Why not just have a braai with all the trimmings and talk about the state of the garden?” Belief is subjective, you don’t have to like it anymore than you might agree with some folks standing in church waving their little hands in the air. Some folks see religion as chicken soup for the soul - well, some folks like their soup with croutons, others with noodles. Some like tomato, others butternut. It would be a boring old world if we all just stuck to hearty beef now wouldn’t it? :wink:

“why is it rewarding - in what sense CAN it be rewarding? What is the attraction to this, believing that a pack of cards can foresee/tell your future and guide you in your life is preposterous to say the least?” - It’s rewarding because it helps me find insight into my past, current and future situations. Often I have made decisions based on this insight and that has been the reward. Yes, I believe in free will - which is why readings are subjective. If for example you are told you will be involved in a fight at a party within the next month or so, then whatever you do after the reading may change this scenario and you can avoid it.

@ Mefiante: Yup :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

There is plenty of info on Wicca and magick online… I’m not exactly an encyclopedia on it… yet :wink:

42

(wtf!!)

facedesk

Why not just use logic, rationality, and your own common sense? Why do you “NEED” something or 'SOMEONE" to guide/provide insight - surely you’re capable of doing this by and for yourself?

43

Hey, it works for me :wink:

44

Old Tele had a sex-change y’all…

45

Not a good enough answer.

Anyways, I’ll leave you on your floating boat.

Thanks for the info.

46

What? He grew some balls? >:D

47

Waves and paddles off ::slight_smile:

48

Stripped of its skirting and evasive prolixity, that’s a convoluted way of saying that you hold those things to be knowledge, as the term was defined earlier. You speak of “learning,” “experience” and “belief,” each of which implies knowledge that is somehow useful or practical. It’s a trivial matter to dismantle the alleged “evidence” that purports to validate these pursuits, negating any claims to knowledge in this sphere. That’s why the orthodoxy rejects them, not because the orthodoxy is run by stuffy and narrow-minded old conservatives.

As for judging, I for one am hardly impressed by the intellectual acuity of people who freely and fully buy into, as some kind of truth, such largely evidence-free feel-good notions mainly because they provide thrills of various kinds, not least among which are pretensions of profundity. I’m even less impressed by their singular ability and slippery inventiveness when it comes to avoiding the strong likelihood that such beliefs are baloney.

But hey, it’s your life and your choice.

'Luthon64

49

i have been chewing my desk in agitation and trying not to add my 2 cents worth.
but, i cant keep quiet anymore.
i, too, have dabbled in wicca back in the day. there are very specific ‘energies’ and magick involved with the different genders. very much specifically around the female menstrual cycle, the reproductive cycle, the male erection, and so on and so forth.
no, christina, my poor human, how the flying fuck do prescribe to be wiccan, when you have lopped off you man-bits, and claim to be female in spirit, yet have to take hormones to remain female in voice and appearance. and i know, that when you stop taking your hormones, your voice will go gruff, and your jaw will square out.
paganism is cool simply because its old, and carries about as much clout in spongebob squarepants. and while you have shirked a one deity religion, now you follow a (at least) two deity ‘religion’. the god and the goddess. and while i know, most covens wont allow a sex-change individual like you, there might be exceptions. and i cant help thinking that you are basically pikking out on your own, without a coven. taken, allso, that you have altered your body the ‘goddess’ gave you, so drastically, and now have take chemicals to keep yourself female, i cannot imagine that being kosher with the wiccan crede.
my other ass-itch, is, you come here, guns blazing about trangender what-what. eventhough we all have coddling you, and saying, basically, you could wear a glistening pink vagina on your head for all we care, you still come and peddle your random kak here, while we obviously think you are a nut-case. either you are dim-witted as your (bottle) blond hair belies, or simply a troll.

in any instance, paganism is beautifull, allbeit complete el-crappo of note. i love partaking in yule and the other solstices, and drink mead as eagerly as any witch or warlock. and meditate myself into oblivion. but it’s still wishfull thinking to think that human fate is controlled by god/allah/gaia/the kraken.

one last thing. if, you are not a troll, and have something other than pagan hogwash and transgender issues to contribute to, then please do just that. maybe partake in our religious debates. without wanting to draw a pentacle and light a candle.

rant over. dankie.

50

You are wrong. I judge you. And it ain’t looking good.

Perhaps what you meant to say was you don’t care how others judge you.

51

Any belief system impacts on how adherents live their lives, and in particular on their morals. A moral outlook founded in untruth must necessarily be distorted. It is for this very reason that the three main monotheistic religions (and many others) discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation: the whole god story is baloney. An objective assessment of the issue makes it clear that such discrimination serves no purpose and causes hardship. Rejecting one religion because it does not suit one and then adhering to another perpetuates the underlying flaw that caused the initial friction: it is still founded in lies hence still morally distorted. There is not the least evidence supporting the mystic phenomena claimed by Wiccans, and their claims have to be rejected on the same grounds as any other such fabrications. Adherence to a belief system on the mere basis that “it works for me” is hare-brained and irresponsible.

52

@ Mefiante: Ah now we’re on shaky ground. Is my invisible friend not as good as Joe Christian’s invisible friend? How is one religions or belief more “real” or “provable” than another? A religion is no more real than another because it is older, or has more books or followers or even because it has spilled more blood than another. And like I said earlier, I’m still largely agnostic.

@ GCG: “how the flying freck do prescribe to be wiccan, when you have lopped off you man-bits, and claim to be female in spirit, yet have to take hormones to remain female in voice and appearance. and i know, that when you stop taking your hormones, your voice will go gruff, and your jaw will square out.”

Wrong on all counts, sorry. a) I take such a small dose of hormones to avoid heart illness and mineral deficiencies, not to keep up appearances ::). b) Stopping this dose will not alter my appearance as you claim. I have friends who stopped taking hormones more than 15 years ago and they are still every bit as feminine. Are you assuming that I still have testes and therefore something that should produce testosterone? c) Why would my voice change? I ask this since female hormones never affected it in the first place.

You might ascribe to the belief that magickal energy is sexual, but that also doesn’t mean it’s true. :wink:

“while i know, most covens wont allow a sex-change individual like you, there might be exceptions.”

Seriously? Where do you get your information from? I had no issues whatever. In fact, almost all the Wiccans I’ve spoken to have not had any issues with me at all on the basis of gender.

“my other ass-itch, is, you come here, guns blazing about trangender what-what. eventhough we all have coddling you, and saying, basically, you could wear a glistening pink vagina on your head for all we care, you still come and peddle your random kak here, while we obviously think you are a nut-case. either you are dim-witted as your (bottle) blond hair belies, or simply a troll.”

You have another ass? ???

And by the way I could care a hoot about your so-called “coddling”. And just FYI - I was answering questions about religion which were brought up by someone else’s comments - I didn’t just randomly start posting on here about Wicca.

Of course, since you are stooping to insults I could remark that you are a sycophant, ranting idiot with your underpants on too tight and backwards - but I won’t. ;D

@ cyghost: You’re right - I don’t give a rat’s hairy, wet ass. :smiley: Btw I was referring to other Wiccans at the same coven ritual or meet-up.

53

and you might ascribe to a bogus, made-up stone-age religion, but that also doesn’t make it true. bazinga!

and i used to be in a coven. but then i woke the fuck up.

as for the tightness and correct wearing of my knickers, i wear none. and my ladybits are 100% au-natural, i didnt have to pay anymore to create them.

sycophant - Noun - 1. One who uses compliments to gain self-serving favor or advantage from another.
2. One who seeks to gain through the powerful and influential.
~ a self-seeking, servile flatterer; fawning parasite.

where, in the everloving world of sanity, did you come to that conclusion? evidently i’m not crawling up your ass, and not up anybody else’s here, i am not known for my ass-kissing abilities. so, next time, google a word before you use i.kay?

54

GCG, this life is my journey, nobody can travel it for me. I may call myself Wiccan for now, just as I once called myself Christian, and agnostic - and I intend to learn what I can from it about life etc… who knows what I may call myself in another decade’s time? I may one day call myself atheist - but that is my choice and no-one else’s. I don’t push my beliefs on other people and I don’t have to defend them against you. I was simply answering questions. Believe what you like, I’m not stopping you.

re “sycophant” - exactly. I think it fits rather well :wink:

Instead of looking down on me because I had to have surgery to correct one of nature’s mistakes, and repeatedly trying to establish your “superiority” over me because of that, you should thank whatever flying spaghetti monster you believe in for being born anatomically correct, or bend over and just kiss it already.

You may disagree with me or my life choices or beliefs, but I don’t think it justifies your aggression and hostility. i have in no way attacked your beliefs, whatever they may be. Be that as it may, hauls out another hairy, wet rat’s ass.

If people are nice to me, I’m nice back. You get what you give.

Have a nice day :wink:

55

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRxVY8X9Dh0p5t7EEec3A_Fnt_fss3QUERo-O7eTVCXJgugrjLGDEgjxe0

56
re "sycophant" - exactly. I think it fits rather well Wink
english is not your first language is it?
I may one day call myself atheist
nigger please! you, just a few posts ago, waxed lyrically about candle magick and some such kak, and now you assume to be an atheist if the fancy grabs you? so you are a wiccan, but you dont actually then believe in what you are doing, because you can see yourself possibly being an atheist in time. you are one seriously confused mofo!
flying spaghetti monster
sauce be upon him
or bend over and just kiss it already
am i to bend over, and kiss yours? in which case, i dont eat plastic sushi. or am i to kiss my own, in that case, let me limber up first.
justifies your aggression and hostility
justified by plenty random dumb-assedness and counter-statements. ie. and, i qoute "I may call myself Wiccan for now, just as I once called myself Christian, and agnostic.....I may one day call myself atheist" so you say, you once called yourself agnostic, so now, being wiccan, does that mean you have found evidence for the god/ess, but still, you dont seem all that convinced, coz the door for atheism is still open. WTF?
If people are nice to me, I'm nice back. You get what you give.
there is only so much nice i have to give, while being exposed to blatant ass-hattery, before i simply tell it as it is.

here’s how it goes: you have no fucking clue what religion, or not, you are, you are an opportunistic latcher-onner. what the old folks would call a draadsitter. you are so busy keeping all the doors open, your bits are drying out in the wind. if you are going to call yourself christian/wiccan, just fucking pick a side. if you are agnostic, then you cant go around selling wicca, and fervently believing that burning a certain coloured candle contain magick. if you are wiccan, then you cant be atheist. or have i lost you allready?

i believe in no god that have been shown to me. but im not yet ready to be an atheist, because i am willing to keep an open mind. but so far, my scale is weighing heavily in favour of atheism.
your scale is full of bullshit, backpeddling and ill concept of the english langauge.

57

Blah, blah fish paste.

That’s the thing about religion, sweetie pie - choice :wink: If it doesn’t suit me to believe in something, I won’t - I’ll move on and find something that does. Or maybe I’ll just enjoy the journey between stops. Who cares? What business is it of yours?

For the last time, I wasn’t “selling Wicca”. I was answering questions about it. Instead of criticizing my understanding of language, perhaps you should have paid more attention to Comprehension in English class. Or go back to the lab to get your bolts tightened.

Seems I really got under that thin skin of yours, didn’t I? ::slight_smile:

You seem to be one of those people that isn’t happy unless you have something to argue about or to be snarky on a forum, and anonymously too - probably because you haven’t got the chutzpah to do it for real in your actual life, that is - if you have one.

I don’t kiss ass, princess - I take bites. Stop bending already. |-O And as a special offer, just for today, you can kiss both sides of mine :wink:

Bye bye

58
you should thank whatever flying spaghetti monster you believe in for being born anatomically correct
Ah now we're on shaky ground. Is my invisible friend not as good as Joe Christian's invisible friend? How is one religions or belief more "real" or "provable" than another? A religion is no more real than another because it is older, or has more books or followers or even because it has spilled more blood than another. And like I said earlier, I'm still largely agnostic.

You have no idea about the members of this forum do you? We pounce on all religions on a equal-opportunity basis. Yes, your religion is no better than any other made-up garbage. That is why we’re bashing it. Most of us (by my observation) are atheists. We won’t be any nicer to a Christian,Hindu,Devil worshipper or Muslim. Dig through our archives, you’ll see us taking apart all of them. And yes, they are all utterly unprovable, and according to me, completely false. In case you want to call yourself atheist some day while still playing with a ouija board (Who knows what you’ll adopt next…), lemme put this out there. You cannot. To be an atheist means rejecting ALL religion and beliefs based on faith.

Agnostic? Perhaps another word you will need to go google, no agnostic would espouse belief in any gods whatsoever. It is the stance of an unbeliever. You cannot say you are wiccan/pagan/etc. and in the same sentence say you are agnostic. Super serious. And no this is not about proving you wrong, it’s about you being inconsistent. Pick one: Religions are bullshit irrespective of blood etc… and you don’t believe them, or you believe in magic and you are not an agnostic.

59

From wikipedia.com - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism

“Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable.[1][2][3] Agnosticism can be defined in various ways, and is sometimes used to indicate doubt or a skeptical approach to questions. In some senses, agnosticism is a stance about the similarities or differences between belief and knowledge[clarification needed], rather than about any specific claim or belief.” and “Demographic research services normally list agnostics in the same category as atheists and/or non-religious people.[6] Some sources use agnostic in the sense of noncommittal.[7] Agnosticism often overlaps with other belief systems. Agnostic theists identify themselves both as agnostics and as followers of particular religions, viewing agnosticism as a framework for thinking about the nature of belief and their relation to revealed truths. Some nonreligious people, such as author Philip Pullman, identify as both agnostic and atheist.[8]”

By all means, pounce away :wink:

60
What business is it of yours?
if you didnt want your business dicussed, then you shouldnt have brought it onto a public forum, eh?
Comprehension in English class
english, highest in my grade, three years running. finished matric with a in matric. currently writing a book. knows what words mean. no need to have bolts tightened, i am a naturally born human female.
Seems I really got under that thin skin of yours, didn't I?
i generally find dumbasses enjoyable. and wiping the floor with fucktards as yourself, as a little joy that makes me smile.
You seem to be one of those people that isn't happy unless you have something to argue about or to be snarky on a forum, and anonymously too - probably because you haven't got the chutzpah to do it for real in your actual life, that is - if you have one.
look up on this forum: Skeptics in the Pub. I have been there. have yet to see you there. Thus, I am not afraid/unable to take a stand in public. I walk Pride. not afraid to take a stand. and, i suspect, i have more of a life than you have, [i]sweetie pie[/i]. and i am argumentative with you, [i]sweetie pie[/i], because you so are so fucking contradicting and up your own ass, that it commends arguing with. and the point of this forum, is debate. duh? and i just happen to have time on my hands at the moment, and i havent had a good flame war in a while. and while the term 'snarky' might sound especially clever to you, i just prefer being called a bitch.
I don't kiss ass, princess
yeah, im not sure what lead to that little quip of idiocy, because you seem to think that im kissing ass. surely not yours, or anybody else's on here. if the voices in your head are too loud, turn the stupid up louder.

and ps, dont call me sweetie pie, or princess. im not two years old, demented or slow. i have a name. and if you had brains and/or balls, the internet is a wonderfull place. find me, and i will tell you in 3D where the shit’s at.