I play in Witbank on Friday nights. After my gig this past Friday I had joined a table of regular customers for a casual “hello” and one of the guys started asking about my atheism (I usually don’t tell customers I’m an atheist but these guys have known me for about a year now). Next thing another guy, whom I had not met before, leans over and says to me, “Hey! Please leave our table now!” So I say, “Why? We are just chatting and I’m answering this other guy’s questions.” So he says, “You offend my culture”. So I replied, “Sorry, but we’re just having a friendly discussion here” (or something like that).
Then this guy says to me, “Look, just fck off or else I will fck you up!” I said, “Wow, Dude, chill” and he says again “I’m going to fck you up … just FCK OFF”. He got extremely aggressive with me. So I said, “Why? Are you a Christian?” He reckons, “Yes, now f*ck off” SO I said, “That is exactly what I’d expect from a Christian” and walked away. The guy was HUGE and very angry and I hadn’t even spoken to him or met him before - he had just been listening in to our conversation.
BTW I see the forum automatically changes my typing to “freck” but it’s not what he said.
The entire incident has left me shaken and traumatized - so much aggression directed at me for no apparent reason except not being a Christian. And do you know what else - nobody at the table (there were about 6 others) told me to stay or defended me - they all agreed and told me to leave. I am still in shock - it was terrible.
I just wanted to vent to you guys - thanks for reading. Any of you had a similar incident? This has not been the first time for me, but it was the first time someone got really aggressive.
Interesting, the reaction (or lack thereof) of the other 6 diners. It looks like they feel bound to defend what they must surely view as embarrassing behaviour. Why? The pack instinct, or fear of standing out and not being accepted?
Sorry to hear about this bucket-of-shyte. One easily forgets that the world is made up of all sorts. Most Christians in my experience at least have the decorum to tolerate an atheist or 2 in their midst, or at most just ignore the unsaved and their clearly superior arguments. I’ve certainly never been threatened in this way, but have rwenzori’s number on speeddial just in case. But at the end of the day, the atheistic path is somewhat lonely and full of social pitfalls. Courage to doubt is more than just a catchy title.
But also, you should still count yourself lucky. Aggressive, unstable types are capable of anything, and this incident could have played out A LOT worse. Just imagine the outcome if, during the heat of the argument, he reached into his polar-fleece jacket’s inner pocket and pulled out a Gideon’s Bible! I’ll sooner take a smack in the face any day.
Steve, yours is not the first such experience and the risible polarising narrow-mindedness of it is one major reason for opposing religion. Ironically, such poor behaviour goes against Christian teachings and, as such, is a not inconsiderable vindication of atheism. At least some people in that group will have noticed that.
Think back what happened to those who refused to ‘conform’: Inquisition; Jews/Christians martyred in the Colloseum; Conquistadores in South America; Crusaders torturing Muslims; Muslims ripping out the hearts of Christians and Jews (and the Irish?? OMG)(…it’s sickening what intolerance, bigotry (Now Gordon Brown’s favourite word :D) and stupidity can lead to.
Steve you’ve been in a situation which many of us fear to be. Would that azzhole have opened his mouth if there were more people around who shared your views? No I freekin don’t think so, because even though he is HUGE, he still use the masses for backup! And for the guys at the table, they are damn “[email protected]” for not trying to calm the Bear down atleast!
An Islamic, Satanist, Budhist, 7th day Adventist or Jehovah can walk in that door, in their minds thats OK, but jirrr please don’t mention you’re an Atheist, no freekin way, that …they can not handle! (wtf!!)
Peacefully discussing the different point of views with a “loving” Christian is simply out of the question! (my point of view and experience in any ways)
Not to derail this thread, but the conquistadores who Christianised Mexico and Peru developed a particularly charming routine when converting the natives. They would baptise their infants so that these would not miss out on the Eternal Life, and then smash their heads against some rocks, no doubt to ensure that they started their Eternal Life without delay. Such psychopathic callousness is of course only “defensible” on fervently-held religious grounds.
A classic case of brain vs brawn. Or in this case. Brain vs Indoctrinated Moron. You should chalk this one up as a victory. As he had nothing to argue with, he had to resort to violence, or at least the threat of it.
Wow! You guys are WONDERFUL. Thanks for all the encouragement and “we-got-ya-back” support. I was feeling quite shaken and all freaked out with that irrational “rejection complex” that follows such incidents, but you guys have made me feel a lot better. Thanks.
I had forgotten about keeping quiet. What I mean is that I had become complacent about keeping the atheist-talk down to zero in spite of Christians insisting on “having a debate” (of which they are incapable). I think I’d forgotten because so many of the people I speak to (and forum with here and on ExChristian.net) are normal, gentle, non-confrontational skeptics and fellow atheists.
Shit - I’ve GOT to learn to shut my trap at gigs - I would hate to lose a gig because of some militant asshole Christian.
Well here is another ironic thing. The Christian I was arguing with was openly gay, as was his partner sitting with him. I don’t have a problem with gay people but Christianity certainly does. During our friendly debate I showed him respect by not pointing this out, but my attacker seemed to have no problem with the two gay guys at the table. But atheist? Now he wants to beat me up? What is wrong with these people? I’m probably more moral than his f*cking Domenie.
Thanks again for all your comments and support. I nearly lost the plot there for a moment. ;D
jirre broe, i would have lived to be there. i’d like to see that douchebag try that shite with me. problem with me is, i dont back down. i effing triple dare that neanderthal to raise a hand in my direction. i have a bottle of pepperspray i have yet to try out. and a shiny new baton on my boot.
i bet he was an afrikaans piece of kak too. make me embarrased to be white, and afrikaans.
steve, if i was there, i would have told them str8. f*ck them and the horse they rode in on.
Thanks GCBabe, if I could have chosen anyone from this forum to be there that night it would have been you. The sparks would have flown, I’m sure. And yes, you are correct about his background … not a very good testimony for his nation or religion.
Thing is … I would have also given him his due if it had not been one of my gigs. I have been playing that venue for over a year now and, having recently lost Wednesdays and Sat afternoons, I need the income desperately. Oh well, shit happens.
I’m pissed off that the guy you were talking to didn’t even say anything. I am not too good at dealing with conflict (I have been told that I loose my temper too quickly, and get myself into boatloads of trouble because of it, so aggression is something I generally try and avoid) Seriously - he was the one who asked you about your views, and even if he doesn’t agree with your views, he should not have let another guy (who had absolutely no business listening to your conversation, btw) get so aggressive.
Steve, I think you did the right thing by walking away. From your description of the incident, I think it would have ended badly if you had pushed your point. He’s the type of guy you cannot reason with, even if he hadn’t been drinking.
I’ve had disagreements, but nothing like the one you experienced.I’m sorry you had to go through that,and I would have done the same thing you did.
what gets my goat, is that this fokker sits in church every sunday, and puffs his chest out in his ill-fitting pepstores suit at his religious fervour.
i would have chirped him, is this how you, as a christian, speak and act. do you feel you are a true representation of the christian faith, and if so, why should i respect you, or your religion, if you are abviously foul-mouthed and and ill-manered too boot.
Agreed, the hipocrisy is the b*tch… but there is still no excuse for such aggression. Maybe it was a setup. Maybe the guy is just an asshole. Best we can do is hope he feels better about himself now. I guess its not worth it getting so riled up over the nutjobs.
in my opinion of drunk dutchmen, this asshat was feeling insecure and inadequite in the converstion, since he didnt have squat to add that was intelligent or relevant.
i can allmost be sure he was the apha male in the group, and when it comes to everyday banter, about braais, cars, bikes and rugby, everyone deemed him the expert. and when the topic of conversation was something that required the gift of thinking, he was like a fish out of water. so instead of waiting for the conversation to eventually come around to him, and he had to deliver so form of opinion, he rather threw is toys. so his macho mask is still in tact.
and i think, the reason the spinless gits who sat at the table didnt say jack shit, is cause they dont want to earn disfavour in the herd-leader’s gaze. typical monkey see monkey do. disgusting.